First things first.
- I love Team Gaysi. I love MJ. I admire her commitment and dedication.
- Nothing I write here is a personal attack. Infact, I have a go-ahead from the Team to write this post.
- I believe that it is human nature to generalize. We all generalize, including me.
- It is an individual’s choice whom they are attracted to and not attracted to (including specific race, color, body type etc..)
- I respect and value freedom of speech. We all are entitled to our opinion.
Now, this post is to say I am very disappointed and upset by some of the comments made in the latest podcast – Gaysi Podcast 5.0 : The Indecent podcast.
Especially the line below was extremely hurtful to me.
South Indian women are hippas man, they are not petite in any sense. North Indian women follow regular hygiene, more polished and are girly-girly”
As I said above, we all generalize. But at what cost?
- South Indian women are conservative, South Indian women are shy, South Indian women play hard to get – Generalizations, Many might not feel offended
- South Indian women don’t maintain personal hygiene, South Indian women are not polished, South Indian women are hippas – Generalizations that are to an extent derogatory, many might feel offended.
I don’t understand why these were not edited out, especially when QC and Broom were obviously irked by these comments and Broom even said those lines needs to go. I don’t buy that it is just “us being silly”. Well may be it is. But the moment, two people in the podcast feel irked, it should have been enough signal to realize, not to go ahead with the comments. In whatever context you hear it, these comments are offensive. It is worse if you are are a South Indian or fat or butch. I am a South Indian, I have a history of bullying for not being “masculine” enough, so I know exactly how many woman would feel if they were called “not girly”. To do that to an entire race, in the name of fun and entertainment is insensitive. If we think comments like this provides entertainment, then we are opening a Pandora’s box.
I have no doubt that MJ’s comments were not intentional and she didn’t mean to hurt anyone. And it is her choice and freedom to say whatever she wants to say. We all stay stuff like this among friends, but is it okay to have that in a podcast that is intended for the community? Freedom of speech comes with its limits in public forums, don’t you think?
How are these comments different from Straight men saying – “Lesbians are mean, fat and ugly”. Of course it is their freedom of speech, and some of them do believe so (based on their limited exposure to Lesbians), but would it be okay if someone posted such a comment on Gaysi? Would it be okay if someone wrote north Indian men are Sissys?
Gaysi will not allow homophobic or transphobic comments. But why? If it is all about freedom of speech, a Gay man who writes for Gaysi might want to say “Transgenders are public nuisance” or “Bisexuals are cheaters”. Isn’t that freedom of Speech? Why is it not okay? Because we are a LGBT website? If that is so, I see so many problems here.
No. 1: Singular identity: We are assuming that our readers have a singular identity. Queer! I want to share few lines from a piece feminisit and activist, Shiva Subbaraman wrote,
For over twenty years, I have been trying to “come out” in the US –as a Tamilian (whose cultural and political ethos was often marginalized in the national politics of that time); AND as a Brahmin (shaped by the anti-brahmin rhetoric and politics which gave me a particular sense of my privilege and put my marginalization in context); AND as a feminist shaped as much by Sivasankari (a Tamil writer) as Virginia Woolf; AND as a woman married to a man who chose to walk in the queer world; AND as an activist and an academic. The US however demanded a somewhat uni-dimensional coming out: a singular, lean lesbian.
I identify myself as Gay, as a Tamilian, as a South Indian, as an Indian, as a South Asian, as Queer and as many other things. I will be offended by insensitive Gay jokes as well as insenstive South Indian jokes.
No.2: “Other” minorities: Many Indians in the US, are racially sensitive, but they are homophobic. They don’t use the N word, they don’t make racial comments against Hispanics, but they mock their fellow Indians who are Queer. I am sure many of you heard the story of how SALGA was denied entry in the New York India day parade. This is the mindset many minorities have. Do we want Gaysi to be one of those?
When I go to desi Gay clubs abroad like Sholay or Kali, there is a clear northie, southie divide. North Indians think they are superior and they show it, to your face. (Some, not all). I have been asked where I am from and when I say I am from Chennai, folks ask me “Really? You don’t look like you are from Chennai.” For them if you are polished, fit, light skinned (relatively, not that I am ‘fair and lovely’) – then you can’t be from Chennai. They have a typical “Quick Gun Murugan” type image of Chennaiates on their minds. And I realize MJ has a unhygienic Mango dolly on her mind, inspite of having these many South Indian folks in her circle. That to me is disappointing.
Again MJ, was among friends and is totally allowed to speak her mind. All I am saying is as a space for Gaysis, we shouldn’t be posting such things publicly, knowing it would hurt and offend people. We can’t and shouldn’t take political correctness completely off the table. As a community platform, we have to be sensitive to our readers feelings. I am not saying, we have to watch every single word we speak, write or post on Gaysi. Sometimes, we might say or write something that ends up offending people. But if and when we know that it did, we should be able to apologize, correct ourselves and make sure we don’t repeat it.
What have we achieved with these comments? I can guarantee you that they alienated people. As a South Indian, I feel alienated and targeted. Even if it is a few handful of our readers, why do it? Podcasts can be made enjoyable and fun even without such comments, don’t you think? If it was me, I would have apologized and taken the podcast off, respecting the feelings of readers and others in the team. But that’s me. My fellow Gaysis think whoever feels offended are welcome to write about it on Gaysi, as it is an open platform. That is also a solution. And I respect it. So here I am, venting it all out and registering my opposition. I owe this to a lot of people here.
Thanks for listening!
Like!
i do agree with shri.. Yr persnal opinion shouldnt be made public when its clear people are not appreciating it.. I’am a south indian too. Though i prefer to ignore it, it does leave an impression of being excluded.. Which is unfair.. This is an independent site for LGBT to create a sense of belonging when the world still calls it taboo.. By discriminalisin on the basis of cast n creed its only goin to add to complications..
Very Rightly said
THIS IS AN INDEPENDENT SITE where people can share their experiences and views. You think some of us stereotype ? help us see through it.. Don’t be disapointed!
Everyone has the freedom to express their opinions, but when it is so disrespectful and prejudiced keep it yourself. I find MJ’s comment extremely distasteful. If it was said in humor, that was bad sucky humor. It’s sad we face so much discrimination within our community. To all the south Indian women out there, you are beautiful and sexy just the way you are, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise!
I agree with you Shri. The comments were disrespectful, even though the intentions may not be so. I can understand that the people involved with the podcast were just trying to make it interesting, funny and cool; and did not mean to hurt anyone.
But it is the responsibility of the editors to make sure that these things do not get posted on the website, since any podcast on this website, can be considered to be a stance of this website, since we all expect it to have gone under the watchful eyes of the editors, who considered it good enough to be published.
As a fat south indian hippa… I’m smoking hot & awesome in bed…but sadly you’ll never know! (terribly disgusted!)
Nice one Shri. I share my disappointment with you. We have had multiple conversation and I really want to put this behind. It is sucking up my energy which I would use to do much wonderful things. Like sleeping
That said, I am happy you were able to speak your mind out and Gaysi provided a space to do that as well.
I hope we call can move away hoping we will use better discretion next time. At this moment, I can only speak for myself.
Thanks guys for your support. Broom has posted an apology post and I very much appreciate her gesture. I am taking a break from Gaysi. Will be back. Take care and be nice
Much love.
Don’t go Shri
Gaysi wouldn’t be as interesting without you.
I completely agree with all you said. Please keep writing.
I am glad this was raised here. I am really disappointed to hear about such stereotyping and prejudices. As a North Indian, I am quite aware of the subtle privilege of being (relatively) lighter skinned. But to me, physical beauty has always been about more than skin color. Many years ago, when I had a chance to visit Tamil Nadu, I recall finding the waiter at my Chennai hotel restaurant exceedingly charming and attractive. And he was ebony complexioned like many locals but it just suited him fine. More significantly, he had a most winsome personality that completely won me over.
In my years in Silicon Valley I have had the good fortune of befriending (and being befriended) by several South Indians (from all the Southern Provinces) and have been charmed by their grace and friendliness. I was out to most of them – others may have inferred or heard from others – but I was accepted for who I was as a person.
Yes, South Indians may be a bit more traditional than Northerners – but they can be wonderful people in their own right. And besides, some of the frankest conversations I have had with any straight male friends have been with three South Indian friends – one Tamilian, one from Pondicherry and one from Andhra.
When it comes to food, art and music – I have found as much (if not more) to appreciate in the South as the North. And certainly, scientifically and intellectually, South Indians are leading much of th North.
Perhaps the only time I have had a bit of a problem is when I have tried to explain the horrors of partition. As a Sindhi and a Multani – I often run into gay/lesbian Indians who are completely unable (or unwilling) to understand, or respect or commiserate with the enormous sense of displacement and loss that partition refugee families went through – how it led to families being atomized and becoming dysfunctional – and how the unspoken and unresolved terror of partition infected the second generation.
In this respect, both my sister (who is lesbian) and I have often felt like silenced minorities within the Indian LGBT community. So I can totally relate to South Indians who might be feeling slighted or left out.
But if we can communicate more, then I am hopeful that most of us will also learn more and learn to enjoy each other more!
I respect this whole post as a South Indian.
On a very objective note – prejudices exist in every Indian mind re: other ethnicities or even people with other lingual roots. Can’t really help clean up the mess that’s part of ‘being gaysi’. I’m sure most of us ridiculing the podcast wouldn’t mind the occasional snigger or bitching vs. people from a different community. This can’t be just treated as discrimination, however Gaysi should and can avoid recurrences of this sort.
Being subjective – I’d call it just the regular thing every Southie faces anywhere beyond his own realm. I’m used to Mallus calling me a Thambi or the Tams calling me a Golti, or a Delhi’ite calling me a Madrasi or the Punjabi almost looking at me as if I were a Commie just because I mentioned visiting Kerala, but the occasional Bombayite seems to have respect for people from different parts, except their own Gujju neighbors. We bitch, damn we do. And how! Straight, Madrasi, fat, ugly, stinky – I think this Gaysi mind has just too many adjectives that it dislikes, is unfamiliar with or just can’t handle.
I’m used to way better sex with a Southie than anybody else. Or hygiene. Or just attractiveness. Can’t wait to show my hormones, but to be honest – I’m happier being denoted as someone with an Indian origin, once I’m outside the subcontinent, and I revel in the pride that this brown color, or the looks that this huge-butted, thunder-thigh’ appearance of a South Indian that it gets me or any of my kinsfolk.
I guess what needs improvement is mutual respect for the Gaysi disparities in origins – especially lingual / socio-political backgrounds. Fuck prejudice.
Peace!
Great post Shri, especially the bit about a ‘singular identity’. Amazing piece by Sivagami Subbaraman: “Our understandings of our selves as men/women, male/female—from clothing to hair to appearance to emotion to attitude to desire and attraction––is a dance at the intersections of all these multiple identities.” Brilliantly articulated. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks ZZ
Glad you shared your thoughts on this here, Shri ! We respect this space more so when folks really make it what it is – a platform for all voices. You & I may disagree on certain aspects of this issue, but I respect your view on this and the ability to state it this articulately. Hugs
Thanks QC. We all had our take aways. I really hope we all can move on from this episode.
Ok, first a MJ’ish comment/suggestion. May be MJ should date some of the south indian women for a couple of months
On a more serious note* i have found that people prefer to simplify differences to perceptual/conceptual habits they already have. Infact, every single thing you say/do will be interpreted as one of their previously conceived habit and it’s a hard battle to get them to consider a different point of view. It’s one of the reasons i try to weigh my words as much as possible.
I know am biased and in a classic fight or flight situation, i would consider a northie brash, non-cunning, likely to act etc…
*– (hand-wavy social psychology and generalizing this post even more)
But our civilization is moving towards an era of very few such violent situations. So we can afford to be less biased in most** of human interactions.
** — I suspect some times the other party might force you, by raising the biased/violence level first.
P.S: you guessed it, am a south indian.